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Post by william on Jan 14, 2016 17:13:45 GMT -5
They seem to be mostly 5 or 6 paragraphs. The seem to be around 200-300 words. It seems to be a bit of stream of consciousness, a bit of subtle meaning, and a bit of conclusion at the end. They are fun. They put you inside the poets mind for a fleeting moment about a subject. They are an abstraction. They are a snapshot of a an epiphany.
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Post by Gerry on Jan 15, 2016 11:17:41 GMT -5
That's a lot of facts about the structure, as if there's a template. But then you look at some that are only a short paragraph, or (god forbid) the Gertrude Stein poems). What about their content, their strategies, their way of engaging "subject matter"?
I think the one important structural discussion of the prose poem is that they're written as prose but attempt to function as poems (or, if you prefer, poetically). Why? How does that work? Does that create any sort of tension?
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Post by william on Jan 15, 2016 18:21:57 GMT -5
I do not like your tone. You want clearer answers, then giver clearer expectations. You are making this learner shut down.
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Post by Gerry on Jan 15, 2016 19:05:40 GMT -5
Not meaning to get you to shut down, Willy. And tonal ambiguity is one of the reasons I dislike having too much online. I was trying to be funny with the "(god forbid) Stein" stuff. Sorry if it didn't come off that way.
But you and I had the talk about number of paragraphs on the phone. If we want to talk about formal poems, then talking about a sonnet as a fourteen line poem in iambic pentameter with (traditioanlly) and octet and a sestet makes sense. But as you remember from talking about the Moderns, free verse poems don't play by such rules. Structure becomes an implicit aspect of the composition: something the writer has to think about.
So what does writing a poem in prose (whether it's one paragraph or several, whether it's 27 words or 270) promote for the poet and for the reader?
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Post by william on Jan 15, 2016 19:17:25 GMT -5
I used thee qualifier "mostly" purposely. Of course there are differences, it like is saying most paintings are on canvas.
--So what does writing a poem in prose (whether it's one paragraph or several, whether it's 27 words or 270) promote for the poet and for the reader?
I would guess more control of the visual rather than auditory aesthetic. Like the leaf poem by ee cummings. I would also say that the breaks in lines typically mean new thoughts or a though that is separate from the last line.
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Post by kes on Jan 16, 2016 11:49:23 GMT -5
The snapshot of an epiphany I think is where prose poems get most interesting... expand on what you mean?
(Is this helping the learner?)
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Post by Gerry on Jan 16, 2016 12:10:29 GMT -5
Kes should sign on not as a guest.
I guess, Willy, my original frustration at your first post is rooted in this. If you asked a student what makes a strong essay, and he said it's five paragraphs, with an intro paragraph, three body paragraphs, and a conclusion and should be about 500 words, how would you respond?
The prose poem though isn't interested in shaping the poem as something: it's a block. A paragraph. The leaf poem is an example of a poet using the artifice of the line break to its fullest potential, breaking up each letter. When we take away the artifice of line breaks, what are we left?
Perhaps a "snapshot of an epiphany" is a good term: because the prose block kind of looks like a photograph in its way.
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Post by william on Jan 16, 2016 18:28:25 GMT -5
50% of my grading is based on the kids just getting the format right. So really, I would be very happy. I would not have to scaffold that part for them. Most of what I do is breaking down complex things into the most easily digestible information (with detailed explicit instructions). I think I should show you examples from the stacks of essays I have on my dinner table. Getting them to have decent arguments with good sentences, are basically instant "A"s. I think most professors are too far removed from the high school setting. Come spend a day in my world, you would understand better.
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Post by william on Jan 16, 2016 18:33:07 GMT -5
Snapshot of an epiphany... like when you have a brilliant piece that comes to you while you are doing dishes, or brilliant bit that comes to you right before you go off to dreamland. Just some beautiful play on words or logical way of putting things together that have been swimming around in the subconscious. Whatever and where-ever it comes from I do not really know, but when it comes we should be slaves to it. Instantly getting it down before it is gone forever. Like waves of feelings, you got to ride em.
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